Sunday, September 13, 2009
Did Wargrave Get It Right?
In his confessional letter, Wargrave claims that he killed off the guests in the order of their crime (from least to worst -- with the exception of Marston who was incapable of feeling guilt). Do you think his calculations were correct? Or, would you have arranged the murders in a different order? Explain and support your response.
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I agree with the order Wargrave chose. Vera Claythorne was definitely deserving of "first place", as Hugo and the little boy (I forgot his name... it starts with a C?!) would literally haunt her and give her a horrible time. Anthony Marston did not feel any guilt at all, he didn't really care.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I don't understand why Wargrave chose his spot where he did. Was he waiting for the right time so that when everyone thought it was him, he would "die"?
Anthony Marston does not feel his guilt (or maybe he does but does not let his remorse show if he has ANY TINY BIT), but I don't really think Emily Brent feels all that guilty about anything either. She is very, very stuck-up and self-riteous.
ReplyDeleteMarissa,
ReplyDeletethe boy's name was Cyril Hamilton.
Also, I believe Wargrave chose his spot where he did because if he died earlier it would have been too difficult. And if he saved himself for the end people would have been suspicious that he was the killer. Therefore, I feel he placed himself pretty much in the middle so that he layed low-key to the other victims.
NO i dont think that he got it in the right order at all. I agree that Anthony Marston was not capable of feeling guily, but Emily brent and William Blore should've been close behind him beacuse they were not remorseful. I also think that McCarthur should've been the last or near the end because he felt extremely guilty, and even awaited his death.
ReplyDeleteTracey,
ReplyDeletethank you, that logic makes sense as to where he placed himself.
Joanna,
I have to disagree with the part about General Macarthur. As everyone else searched the island looking for U.N. Owen, he sat serenely by the sea saying that "this was the end". I would classify that as not really caring.
^^Continued^^ I think that Vera was close to the right spot and that. I agree with Tracey that Wargrave picked the perfect spot for him to be killed.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Tracey and James about Wargrave being as unsuscpicious as possibly while being capable of committing the other murders unnoticed by being "killed" in the middle. That's how Wargrave clears suspicioin of himself; he takes a moderate role in everything. Instead of scheming and trying to figure out who the murderer is (or pretending to try to figure that out with the others), he simply observes it from a distance. He takes the role of someone who brings everyone together in all of the insanity. He always tries to get everyone to be calm and discuss their problems and fears openly with the group.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, I find it interesing how Wargrave's plans worked out perfectly. They all followed the poem in order and Wargrave never got caught. I'm sure he planned carefully, but I find it amazing how he predicted exactly what the others would do. In the manuscript, Wargrave admits to hiding behind a wardrobe when Vera killed herself. If Vera did not commit suicide she would find Wargrave and the entire mystery would be revealed.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I think Wargrave chose a correct order. Since Marston was not capable of feeling guilt, then there was no point in keeping him longer. Vera, on the other hand was mentally tortured by her guilt until it led her to commiting suicide.
ReplyDeleteI concur that Wargrave was very unsuspecting and while reading the book i was beginning to doubt him as the murderer myself although at other times not so much. I believe that he was incredibly sly and clever to have all the guests turning against each other; this is also something that made the attention and the suspicion away from him. I think as a murderer he was very cunning and creative and as an actor -- well everyone walked right into his trap.
ReplyDeleteI also think that it was interesting how Wargrave's plans worked out perfectly but then again, thats how the novel was meant to be written. But as for the Topic question- Yes, I agree with Justice Wargrave's choice of order. Marston was surely the least guilt ridden and careless of his actions, meanwhile Vera was hysterical and the memory of Cyril and Hugo could not leave her memory and would forever haunt her until she finally hung herself and fulfilled the last verse of the nursery ryhme.
I believe that Justice Wargrave did have it right, he choose accordingly from the least guilty to the most. Which actually does make sense for those who are careless to be killed in order to be out of the way. Then those who feel the most guilt for it to have the guilt make them suffer to where the end was no longer upsetting.
ReplyDelete-Lauren
I don't agree with Wargrave. I believe he was right in killing Marston first because he killed children, then i think it should have been Vera because she too killed a child. Then I think it should have been one of the Roger's, then Armstrong, then another Roger's, then Blore than Lombard because the people they killed were defensless and didnt do anything to them. Then MacAtrhur last, because he was a poor old soul who was cheated in by his wife whom he loved so dearly.
ReplyDeleteI feel like Wargrave got most of it right. The only thing that bothers me is the Rogers (Ethel and Tom). I would have liked to have known more about them. I think Tom should have been killed before his wife because to me he seems like the ringleader and would feel less guilty. I feel like Ethel just follows her husband and that she is like vera who is left with the feeling of guilt.
ReplyDeleteKelly,
ReplyDeleteI disagree. In my opinion, Wargrave was correct for the most part. He did not murder the victims in the order of whom they murdered. He murdered them based on the magnitude of their guilt, so Vera did deserve to be murdered last.
Vera had the most guilt, so he wanted her to suffer through it?
ReplyDeleteyes. he was so insane that he wanted to see them suffer through it. Vera certainly suffered, being haunted by Cyril and Hugo throughout the entire novel.
ReplyDeleteI Also believe that Wargrave's choice for the order in which he selected whom would die first is fairly correct. Anthony Marson who suffered no guilt at all was obviously first, then following him Ms. Rogers, MacArthur, Mr. Rogers, so on and so forth. What confuses me though is why Wargrave decided to have the ones who realize their own mistakes suffer the longest, while he lets those who are free of guilt die without all of the mental torture.
ReplyDeleteAlly,
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, those who are free of guilt have no mental torture.
Marissa and Ally, I agree with you both.
ReplyDeleteAlly, I also agree with Wargrave's order. I feel that he killed the people first with no guilt, so that the other victims, such as Vera Claythorne, with a lot of guilt, could 'crack' from all the guilt. He wanted to watch them be tortured, as he expresses, it is entertaining to him in the courtroom to watch people 'squirm'.
Also, I do agree with, as someone said earlier, that the Roger's could have lived longer. I believe they had guilt, so I'm not sure why Wargrave decided to kill Mrs. Rogers so early. I would have like to known them more as characters.
I think that Wargrave missed the mark on all but two in the order of deaths. He is right in killingAnthony Marston first. But I think that Emily Brent, Philip Lombard, and William Blore should have died toward the begining too. None of those characters feel any remorse that the reader is aware of. Also I think Thomas Rogers was somewhere in the middle. Then Mrs. Rogers because you could tell she felt some guilt. Then the General then Dr. Armstrong and then Vera. So in my eyes Anthony was the least guilty and Vera was the most however I would have placed the others in a different order.
ReplyDeleteCourtney...
ReplyDeleteI understand your point, but I think that Philip Lombard is right to have been killed directly before Vera Claythorne. He does feel guilty, I just think he expresses his guilt differently and certainly more secretly. Obviously, he is paranoid; he carries a revolver with him to Soldier Island! What's the deal with that? I think that guilt can make one paranoid, and this holds true for Lombard.
Erin,
ReplyDeleteYou make a valid point. However, Philip Lombard did not bring the revolver to Indian Island out of lust. In his letter inviting him to the island, he was specifically told to bring the revolver. This was Wargrave's motive all along.
I think Emily Brent should have been killed last so she would come to her senses that what she did was wrong.
ReplyDeleteAnthony Marston does not feel his guilt, but I don't really think Emily Brent feels all that guilty about anything either. She is a stuck-up and self-riteous person. Antony Marston and Emily Brent should have been killed later so they know what they did was wrong.
ReplyDeleteOh, thanks Tracey!
ReplyDeleteAnd I do see what Kelly means about Emily Brent.
Courtney and Jimin,
ReplyDeleteI disagree. I believe that Emily Brent did feel guilt, while she was lying in her room the name Beatrice Taylor continually came to her mind and it was dificult for her to not think about it. Although she did not believe that she should be faulted, her inner conscience still felt remorseful.
Ally,
ReplyDeleteI agree. I feel that once the gramophone was set up, all of the guests sparked some sort of guilt whether they chose to acknowledge it or not.
For example, General MacArthur excepted his guilt openly and could not live through it, therefore he chose to enjoy his final days.
On the other hand, Anthony Marston did not show any emotion. However, I feel although he didn't show anything, he had to have felt something, he is only human.
Exactly, Anthony Marstons guilt wasn't shown to us because he died so suddenly. Emily Brent's guilt was only shown towards the middle of the book. I believe that since Anthony was so young he didn't want what he had done to weigh him down and keep him sullen. So, he just put it in his past and tried to act as though it wasn't his fault and that he shouldn't be taking the blame.
ReplyDeleteI always think since Anthony Marston was so young that there is that male ego of not letting your emotions show that always plays a factor.
ReplyDelete****************************!!QUESTION!!**********************************
ReplyDeleteOn the agenda sheet it says to look on the website for information on the modern god/goddess, were on the website is the information on it??? HELP MEE!! I couldn't find it anywhere but its very possible that i could've missed it...... :-)
James,
ReplyDeleteIf you go to the online website, click on this week's agenda.
At the bottom it says something like assignment related links or something, and the assignment sheet for the modern god/goddesses is on there.
hope that helps!
THANKS!!!! hahaha i found it like a minute after i posted the comment though lol haha thanks so much though!!
ReplyDelete;-)
I dont think Wargrave's arrangement was entirely correct. Marston was correctly placed first, but it seemed to me that Mrs. Rogers could have died of fear and guilt hersel, therefore she should have died later on. Lombard and Brent felt no guilt whatsoever, and should have been killed earlier. Macarthur was hard to read, he wasnt so much guilty, but more remorseful maybe, and accepted that he should go, so I guess he was killed at a good time. Armstrong and Blore definitely had more guilt than Lombard so they should have been a bit later. But Vera was paerfect. she felt the most guitly. My order would be: Marston, Macarthur, Lombard, Brent, Wargrave, Mr. Rogers, Blore, Mrs. Rogers, Armstrong, then Claythorne.
ReplyDeleteI felt Wargrave got it right if he wanted to be torturous by allowing the guilt to eat away at the guests even more if they were guilty. I think that it would have been better if the people who were killed first were killed last because then they could have felt the same amount of guilt as the others.I agree with Joanna though that Lombard and Blore did not feel much guilt. Blore though felt some guilt I thought. The most guilty should have been killed first cause they already felt guilt, while the lesser ones who felt no guilt killed last to let guilt grow on them.
ReplyDeleteI believe Wargrave did it right. His reasoning behind most guilty could be debated because Lombard showed little remorse and McArthur showed remorse. I also think he knew exactly what he was doing because Vera basically went crazy, and he knew it was going to happen. He also knew she was going to kill herself, along with killing Lombard. But, I believe the order was just right the way he did it.
ReplyDeleteI think that Wargrave did have the order wrong. He should have put General Macarthur closer to the end and Blore and Lombard closer to the front. Macarthur was really guilty and Blore and Lombard didn't seem very guilty at all. He did get the order right when he put Marston first and Vera last because Marston felt little to no remorse and Vera felt a lot of remorse.
ReplyDelete