Sunday, May 23, 2010

Romeo: Tragic Hero or "Fortune's Fool"?

Scholars still debate whether is a pawn of fate or a victim of his own tragic flaws (just pick one of the many).  You decide!  Don't forget to support your arguments with proof from the text.

96 comments:

  1. Is this the blog for the essay? Because I have questions... and there will be plenty more.

    I'm having trouble starting my introduction. I'm siding with the scholars who believe that fate played a bigger role in this tragedy. Anyone have any ideas on how to start? thanks!

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  2. Taylor, for the grabber maybe you can talk about fate or destiny or somehow find a quote that ties in with this theme. The you would explain your grabber. For the link to literature, since you are siding with fate somehow mention that in Romeo and Juliet by Shakespeare fate affects the lives of the characters. In the annotating sentence maybe give the definition of starcrossed or fate unless you do that in the link to literature somehow. And in the thesis talk about how somep people believe this while others feel it is a tragedy because Romeo has a tragic flaw. I was also a little confused with the introduction but looking at the Freedman/Barge vs. the Amazon bloggers essay can help.

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  3. I have a questions... and i will have many more.

    I am confused about the argumentative essay. Do you need to explain the other side like Atticus Finch being a rolemodel or not?

    Also, I'm worried about writting a conclusion because we didn't really discussed it in class. Any help with conclusion? Thanks :)

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  4. Jimin (1st question)
    2nd paragraph : explain the other side you are against, then say its wrong


    Hope that kind of helps.


    And thanks so much Danielle! That actually helped me a lot.

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  5. Oh and where can we find the worksheet on how to write an arguementative essay? Ms.Arney said it was on her website... just having a tad bit of trouble finding it.

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  6. Taylor, I think Miss Arney said it was sometime around January 25th that it was posted but I'll double check.
    And Jimin just to add to what Taylor said, paragraphs 3,4, and 5 are supporting your ideas. So if you're doing fate it would be three things that were too coincidental but if you're doing Romeo's flaws it would be three of his tragic flaws and supporting details.

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  7. Taylor,
    Here is the link for the argumentative essay (midterm)

    http://www.prhs.k12.ny.us/fac/arneyd/English%209Honors/Midterm%20and%20Final%20Exams/Midterm%20Essay%20January%202010.htm

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  8. Anyone know how we are supposed to format the 2nd paragraph.
    This is what I got from the arguementative essay sheet.
    1st- Topic sentence adressing the other side and what they believe
    2nd-2 concrete details ( what are they supposed to be?)
    3rd- Commentary for each concrete detail (Again what are they supposed to be?)
    4th- Analytical statement providing evidence hat what they are saying is untrue
    5th- Closing sentence saying that the other side is wrong, and transition to your 1st pro paragraph


    I really appreciate all the help guys. I need all the help I can get.

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  9. i was just wondering how many quotes are neccessary in each of the body paragraphs

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  10. Julie: It should be listed as the requirement on the assignment page. 1 direct quote per body paragraph and the other CD may be a paraphrase.

    For help with the CMs, connect the quote to the topic sentence and then demonstrate how this particular quote / event helps the topic sentence prove the thesis.

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  11. I am on my 4th paragraph and i am siding with fate but i waswondering is it okay if i ue the same examples oin different parapgraphs or example for my 2nd paragraph i used the fight between Tybalt and Romeo as an example to show my flaw for romeo but can i use that example in my 4th paragrph to show and example of fate? they will contribute to the deaths in different ways
    thanks :)
    -Shannon

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  12. I'm confused about annotating the introduction. WHat exactly are we supposed to say?

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  13. Ohhh wait nevermind haha I remember now lolz

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  14. I'm starting on my pro-paragraphs (i'm siding with fate) and i'm having trouble starting off the paragraphs

    any ideas?

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  15. i am confused about the thesis.... do we just state the opinion on both sides and that's it?? or should we show what side we are on?
    i am just confused about what should be the focus of the thesis and if i have included eveything i need to. thanks!

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  16. Tara I believe in the thesis you would tell what side you are supporting.

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  17. i am also confused about the thesis...as usual. I am currently supporting the fate side. how should i start off with my thesis? any ideas?

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  18. For the second paragraph am I supposed to provide evidence that there is a possibility it might have been Romeos fault even thought I am am siding with fate?

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  19. Taylor, the second paragraph is the con side, so you do have to say that but the other three paragraphs with the pros have to be more compelling and strong to basically, make the reader side with you.

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  20. i am also confused about the thesis...as usual. I am currently supporting the fate side. how should i start off with my thesis? any ideas?

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  21. For the quotes, what should I put in the arentheses, (author Act.Scene. line numbers)? Anyone know how to cite it?

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  22. Can hubris be considered a tragic flaw even if Im on the tragedy side?

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  24. Did i cite this right?

    “Holy Saint Francis, what a change is here! / Is Rosaline, that thou didst love so dear, / So soon forsaken? Young men’s love then lies / Not truly in their hearts, but in their eyes” (Rom.2.3.69-72).

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  25. I think for the parenthesis you would do (Act.Scene. Lines number/s)

    *(1.1. 5-12)

    *I don't know what we have to use the abbreviation for... but here's the abbreveiation for Romeo and Juliet (Rom.)
    Ms.Arney what is the abbreviation for?

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  26. How do we write the Pro paragraphs?

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  27. Taylor - the abbreviation is right. You actually don't cite Shakespeare since he's mentioned in your thesis/ intro. You cite by the title of the work. So your: “Holy Saint Francis, what a change is here! / Is Rosaline, that thou didst love so dear, / So soon forsaken? Young men’s love then lies / Not truly in their hearts, but in their eyes” (Rom.2.3.69-72).
    is correct.

    Emily: Hubris is a tragic flaw regardless of what side you are on

    THESIS: State your opinion (without using 1st or 2nd personal pronouns)

    Pro paragraphs are like the midterm. Give your argument (category of flaw or fate) and then the details that support it. Your CDs are the textual details and I gave a hint for the CMs above

    Did I miss anyone?

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  29. umm i did something different to cite the quotes... i looked in my mla book and i thought we were supposed to do this...
    Another example of other characters actions controlled by fate is shown when Capulet suddenly decides to move Juliet’s marriage to Paris even earlier and says:
    CAPULET. Send for the County. Go tell him of this. I’ll have this knot knit up tomorrow morning. (4.2.21-25)

    it said to indent it and i did that for all of mine so far.... is this okay???

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  30. For the con paragraph, were we supposed to do the same thing as the midterm where you have the CD a CM supporting it and then a CM refuting it or should both of the commentaries support it?

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  31. Tara: Since we are only using ONE text, I will allow it for this assignment; however, please note that Mrs. Shepard might require you to be more specific.
    Danielle: you can do either

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  32. For the eight sentence Jane Schaeffer model, does that mean we only need 2 concrete details followed by 2 commentaries? Or is it 3 CDs with one commentary following?

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  33. Lauren- it is 2 cds and 2 cm's for each cd (just like how we have been writing paragraphs in our other journals and essays)
    TS
    CD
    CM
    CM
    CD
    CM
    CM
    CS

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  34. Ok, Thanks Tara, that's what I thought but I was confused!

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  35. I wrote a sentence to explain my grabber, and I am not sure if it would get a big "awk" next to it... Could anyone give me an opinion other than my own on this?
    "Rather than an individual's impulses, judgments, and conclucsions, it is fate that brings about life's greatest joys and most terrible tragedies."
    Thank you!

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  36. Erin,
    That sounds really good! :) I do not think it sounds awkard, maybe you read it to much and thought it did...i do that all the time...lolz

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  37. I agree with Theresa, Erin I really like it and I don't think it sounds akward at all!

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  38. I'm on my 2nd pro paragraph and I've sided with fate...as one of my CD's for 'coincidence' I've chosen Romeo running into the illiterate servant in the street

    is it okay if i don't have a quote for that?
    i would say-

    One major coincidence was in Act I scene ii, a Capulet servant is walking along the streets of Verona trying to hand out invitations to a party, the only problem with this is the servant can't read.

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  39. Ally, yes it is ok if you don't have a quote for that CD as long as you have one quote in your second paragraph.

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  40. We are supposed to underline the title, right?

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  41. I think you can also italize, Jason.

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  42. I thought since it was a play we were supposed to put it in quotes.....

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  43. Yea Jason.

    I'm confused on how to cite drama. Is this quote properly cited : "ROMEO. A dram of poison, such soon-speeding gear/ As will disperse itsef through all the veins,/ That the life-weary taker may fall dead"

    Do I not put the dashes as it classifies under drama due to no rhyme but a ryhtem? Also where do I put the Act/Scene/Page Number ?

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  44. I am not sure how to put the title in the introduction. I put it in quotations because I thought play titles were supposed to be quoted, but I'm probably wrong. Which one: quotes, italize, or underline?

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  45. Since I am supporting the fate side, in the con paragraph should I state one of Romeo's flaws and two events that prove it. Or should I use two different flaws?

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  46. I am siding with fate..so for my pro paragraphs do i use a different element for each or do i use like coincidence for all three?

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  47. Theresa, I THINK you can use coincidence for all three, just a different example of coincidence for each.

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  48. Jason, I believe you should state two of Romeo's flaws because in the sheet about persuasive essays we got for the midterm, it says recognize two of the opposing arguements.

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  49. Theresa and Sarah: NO! Do not use coincidence for 3 paragraphs - that is an argument. You would then be using CDs as topic sentences and you don't want to do that. You need (3) different aspects of the play that were beyond the lovers' control. Coincidence is one; I gave you the example of timing in class as another...

    Jason: you can give 2 flaws or 2 examples of one flaw

    Sarah: Look at the title sheet I gave you. Long plays are italicized

    Kevin: it's in the MLA Handbook

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  50. Miss Arney the MLA Handbook is what is confusing me. It does not say when to cite the act/scene/ page number and what to do if the passage exceeds x amount of lines.

    Also I thought you only use 2 different aspects of the play that were beyond the lovers' control as one paragraph is CON?

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  51. Kevin,
    I think I understand part of your question....
    If in your ICEing of the quote, you indicate that Romeo is speaking, you do not need to put his name in the quotation itself.
    And, yes, cite it as prose. If you look at 3.7.4 of the MLA, it is showing you how to quote DIALOGUE (when more than one character is being quoted by you). Follow standard rules of quoting when you are quoting from one character's lines.
    As for the act,scene, line ...???? It would be at the end of the quote like you always do. You don't quote using page numbers with Shakespeare.
    Does this make sense?

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  52. Anyone have any ideas on how to close up my conclusion I said

    This argument may never be solved, because neither side may not be willing to give up or reject its ideas. There will always be the question: Is it fate or Romeo’s fault that Romeo and Juliet had a tragic end?


    I don't know if its appropriate to end the conclusion. It seems a little cheesy. Anyone have any opinions?

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  53. Taylor i think it is fine but at the end when you say:
    Is it fate or Romeo’s fault that Romeo and Juliet had a tragic end?

    I think it sounds a little awkard saying Romeo twice...idk that is just me

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  54. Ok, thanks Miss Arney.

    Quick Question : When does one use the / ?

    And do you have any tips on making an essay sound more sophisticated without simply clicking for synonyms?

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  55. No, Theresa, you are correct. Taylor: just make certain that wasn't your grabber also.

    Kevin: the / is used with lines or poetry or poetic dialogue (like Romeo's "She doth teach the torches to burn bright" soliloquy).

    And, yes, avoid linking verbs; DON'T RELY on the synonyms; stick to active voice. It will help.

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  56. I am confused about naming three aspects of fate. I have coincidence as one. Could star crossed lovers or foreshadowing be others??

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  57. Is it okay to use a quote from the prologue? and if so I am confused about how you should cite the quote since it is not an Act

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  58. Teresa: did you erase a question? You may quote from the Prologue and you would cite it as Prologue with line number(s)

    Julie: read the comments above and I gave you guys several examples in class last week.

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  59. thanks. is Friar's name supposed to be spelled "Lawrence" or "Laurence"?

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  60. Julie, in the play it says Lawrence, so I would think it would be spelled that way.

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  61. Thank you Theresa and Ms.Arney

    Finally on my last paragraph.

    I don't know if this is correct, but as my first two arguements I said that fate plays a large role in having Romeo and Juliet meet, and fate plays a large role in Romeo and Juliet dying. As my third arguement I'm am going to say that fate plays a large role in Romeo and Juliet's relationship being complicated or something along those lines. Is this okay? Because I see that everyone has been talking about coincidence, and I put nothing about coincidence as my one of my arguements.

    And should we capitalize the first letter in fate as if it were a person?

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  62. Lauren and Julie: Yes, use the spelling in the text. The older text I used to type up the original study guide questions spelled it differently. I'm sorry that I confused you.
    Taylor: don't capitalize it

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  63. I'm currently on my 5th paragraph and for fate, the 3rd aspect I've chosen is the actions of others,

    for the first CD i have Mercutio intruding on Tybalt and Romeos fight which eventually led to Romeo killing Tybalt

    but I'm having trouble finding a 2nd instance of other characters actions...

    does anyone have any ideas? ?

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  64. Ally, You can talk about when Lord Capulet quickly marries Juliet off to Paris.

    Hope that helps!

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  65. What should I do if a word in the quote I am using from Romeo and Juliet has an accent above one of the letters?

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  66. You should be able to get that by changing fonts, but it might be easier to just write it in with a pen, Erin.
    Taylor: good suggestion

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  67. I ask the same question that Taylor asked before on how to conclude the concluding paragraph. Mine is saying how both sides have adequate info. which is why the question is so hard to answer. Any know how to just wrap everything up?

    Also in the concluding paragraph are we supposed to lean more to the side we believe in? Like would I say: Even though both sides have many supporting detals from the play, one should say that fate had caused the tragic ending because ....

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  68. Kevin, I think for the conclusion you are supposed to be neutral in a way supporting both of the sides. You could somehow say it is hard to decide because people have different ideas and opinions about the subject. There is no exact definition about what lead to the two deaths overall so it is up for interpretation. There are many instances where fate was involved while there are also many instances Romeo was impulsive so it is hard to tell which played more of a role. So I don't think you are supposed to lean to one side but I could be wrong about it.

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  69. Okay:
    1) in the thesis we are only supporting our side? so how should we lead into the CON paragragh??? For mine i said: Some crirics and Shakespearean scholars would defend that Romeo and Juliet is a story about fate and star-crossed lover, while others would defend that it is a classic Aristotlian tragedy, a.... (I am supprting that the story is about Romeo's flaws)
    2) i have searched for a clear definiton of what an Aristotlian tragedy is yet I keep getting what Aristotle THOUGHT a tragedy should be. is the actual definiton: "the imitation of an action that is serious and also, having great magnitude, completeing itself"... OR is it..."incidents arousing pity and fear, wherewith to accomplish the catharsis of
    such emotions"
    3) I am stuck on the 3rd paragraph yet i finished the others except the conclusion. One of Romeo's flaws besides his impulsiveness and anger, what is one other? I wanted to add moodiness yet I found it a weak example I was wondering if there was another example.
    SORRY FOR THE LONG STORY!!! :)
    Thank you!!!

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  70. Miss Arney,
    In my intro, I substituted the concept of star-crossed lovers for fate. Is that okay?

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  71. Ms. Arney, or if any others....i am a bit confused on what is required in the conclusion, i know i have to restate the thesis and end with a clincher, what else is there to do?

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  72. Amanda, I think we are only supposed to support the side we choose in the thesis. You can lead into the "con" paragraph by stating "Some would argue that..." For the Aristotlian tragedy, I just said that this is a work in which the tragic hero's flaws contribute to his death. For Romeo's other tragic flaw, you could try his "fickleness".

    Marissa, I think this is okay.

    Theresa, you should try to evaluate why people can't seem to resolve this debate or why this debate is still going on.

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  73. Miss Arney, I cited the act/scene/line numbers like this: (Rom. I.i.1-3). Is this okay?

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  74. I am very confused on how to cite the play is this alright......,

    “By a name/I know not how to tell thee who I am./ My name, dear saint, is hateful to myself/because it is an enemy to thee./ Had I it written, I would tear the word.” (II.ii/ 58-62)

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  75. thank you Jeremy! I will use that for sure.

    Theresa: We cite it like the following:
    “By a name/I know not how to tell thee who I am./ My name, dear saint, is hateful to myself/because it is an enemy to thee./ Had I it written, I would tear the word.” (2.2.58-62)
    Hoped that helped!!!

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  76. I take that back, in the parenthesis it is like this:
    (Rom.2.58-62)
    Okay, THAT ONE is right!!!

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  77. Wait, so it goes (Character name.act.scene.page) for citing the quotes and also shouldn;t the period be outside after the parenthesis?

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  78. For Romeo's tragic flaws in the con paragraph do we use 1 tragic flaw or more when we describe him?

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  79. Terence, it should be cited (Rom[for Romeo and Juliet].act.scene.line[s])

    and Megan, I think we can use more than one but i'm not sure

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  80. Megan i am assuming you use two, since you need to concrete details.

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  81. Citing quotes from Acts you put the number, but how would you cite from the Prologue? thanks to anyone who can help!

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