A forum to discuss the two types of reviews of To Kill a Mockingbird: those of the general public in an informal blog setting vs. those of scholarly critics.You may ask questions, plan your paragraphs, or just share your favorite golden "tidbits" from the reviews...there are so many to comment on, right?
Yay, first comment! :) Well I think that the reviews were absurd and funny, yet some were helpful. However the critics were more eloquent.
ReplyDeleteI also wanted to ask if there is a conclusion on the Journal? I only saw on the assignment paper:
Four paragraphs, one intro and 3 body paragraphs.
Please help, thanks for anything and everything :)
Amanda, there is not a conclusion on this journal.
ReplyDeleteFor the link to literature, would would talk about the critics and Freedman and Barge?
ReplyDelete*would we
ReplyDeleteYour link could be something like stating that many people find different ways to offer opinions on literature...
ReplyDeleteOk, thanks Miss Arney!
ReplyDeleteI did the Link to Literature and Annotation a little differently. Is this okay?
ReplyDelete"One specific work of literature that has had many different opinions expressed about it is To Kill a Mockingbird, a bildungsroman by Harper Lee. Lee's timeless classic has been the subject of many different types of reviews ragning from the literary criticisms of Monroe Freedman and R. Mason Barge to the book reviews posted on Amazon.com."
That's great, Jeremy; and I love that you fit in the "timeless classic" line. You have earned a cookie.
ReplyDeleteI am confused on the thesis. It should relate to the writing styles of the critics, right?
ReplyDeleteLauren I think the thesis is supposed to talk about the difference between the book reviews and the law journal entries and explain how the content, style, and diction show how they differ.
ReplyDeleteI am really confused about the link to literature now. I thought it was supposed to be about To Kill a Mockingbird like Jeremy used but in Lauren's post before the link to literature is about the reviews and Barge and Freedman. So I don't know which to use.
Lauren: Danielle is correct. How would you characterize the difference between the two types of criticisms in a sentence? That is essentially what you are proving.
ReplyDeleteDanielle: you are fine by doing the link to TKM!
Thank you Miss Arney!
ReplyDeleteMiss Arney,
ReplyDeletehow do you cite a quote if it ends in a question mark or exclamation point? Does that also go outside the quotation marks as if it was a period?
No, Tracey: put special punctuation marks like ?s and !s inside the quotation marks and then still put a period at the end of your sentence (outside the citation).
ReplyDeleteConsult the MLA Handbook if my words are confusing...
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ReplyDeleteWhen there is a quotation within a quotation, should I use a single quote like this?
ReplyDelete"And they call this a 'timeless classic'!" (Review 4).
By the way, what is a cookie?!
Thanks Danielle and Miss. Arney! Also Jeremy I believe your right.
ReplyDeleteJeremy, I agree with Lauren that you are correct. And I don't know if you are being sarcastic or serious about the cookie but if you are serious it is a joke from one of the reviews I think either 4 or 5. It said something like if I had a cookie for everytime someone said timeless classic I would be a fat kid.
ReplyDeleteIf I wanted to show the informal writings of a critics style, would it just be like this if it was listed:“By: Harper Lee This Book is historical fiction The theme (lesson) is not to kill a mockingbird” (Review 13).
ReplyDeleteDanielle: "And they call this a "timeless classic" !Bah,humbug! If I had a cookie for every time I heard that, i'd be a very fat kid!" This is from review four. I believe this quote is sacastic and very childish.
ReplyDeleteLauren: I think that is how you show the informal writing. The writer only skipped a line in order to list some information about TKM, but didn't give his/her opinion(CM) or CD to support one's argument like most of the reviews.
ReplyDeleteThanks Jimin! But I meant if my concrete detail was accurate.
ReplyDeleteI am really confused about how to write the thesis sentence. Is it supposed to be about the content, style and diction of the reviews compared to the literary critics?
ReplyDeleteTeresa, I believe it's supposed to be about how the style diction and content of the critics develops their writing. So basically I think you are correct.
ReplyDeleteThanks Lauren!
ReplyDeleteand also should we use [sic] when someone uses a lowercase letter for a name?
Ex. "they killed tom[sic]" or just "they killed tom"
Teresa, I would do that, but you might want to get that confirmed from Miss. Arney.
ReplyDeleteJeremy: Yes - the punctuation you are using is correct.
ReplyDeleteTeresa: I answered the question about the thesis in an earlier post and yes, [sic] any glaring mistake in grammar or spelling
I don't understand what we have to annotate. Are we supposed to explain To Kill A Mockingbird or the amazon.com reviews and the essays?
ReplyDeleteJulie, I think you are supposed to annotate how TKAM has been criticized by Freedman, Barge, and the Amamzon.com reviewers. The example Miss Arney gave in class for the annotation was, "This timeless classic has been the criticism of both literary critics and bloggers..." So I guess you could write something along the lines of how it has been criticized throughout the years. I hope this is helps a little more with the annotation!
ReplyDeleteCould the word bland be used to describe the tone of a review such as a review that is boring and empty?
ReplyDeleteDanielle: Thank you for helping Julie..and, yes - bland or insipid would work.
ReplyDeleteMiss Arney I'm terribly confused on how to distinguish the difference between content and style!
ReplyDeleteIs content: what is said like... This book was ok but sucked.
Then diction: the words used "sucked"
And style: is style like tone, or what they are trying to convey to the reader like: "using long, eloquent words"
I'm just stuck on content the critics used, yet I'm also stuck on the style that both the critics and the reviewers used.
Thanx for ANY help.
Thanks Danielle!!
ReplyDeleteThank you Miss Arney!
ReplyDeleteAmanda, the content is the concrete details the person used to support his opinion. So the content of review 4 is worse than the content of review 10 because review 4 had no "facts" while review 10 had support. Style is whether the writing is formal or informal. So the amaon reviews would probably have an informal style because of how they address the books and other people. Meanwhile the literary critics Barge and Freedman are more formal in their writing. And diction is the word choice of the writer. So for the word "sucked" like you said above that would be poorer diction compared to a word like "androgynous". All of these contibute to the way the tone of the piece of writing is conveyed to the reader.
I am unclear about the part on the prompt where it says "be certain to evaluate the tone of the reviews as you ice" does this mean only the amazon.com reviews? or does it include the literary critic's position papers? Thank you for any help!
ReplyDeleteTara, I think it means any of the reviews/ literary critics.
ReplyDeleteShould I leave the mistakes the writers made in the reviews, like for instance if they listed their reivew, should I add in a period?
ReplyDeleteTara, I agree with Lauren that I think you have to include the tone for Barge, Freedman, and the amazon.com writers.
ReplyDeleteLauren, if the writer made a mistake in their review you include the mistake and write[sic] after it. I am confused what you mean by listing their review. If you are talking about Review thirteen I think you wouldput a semicolon between each line from previous experience like in poetry or plays but I am not positive sorry!
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ReplyDeleteThanks! Yeah I was talking about review 13
ReplyDeleteDoes it matter if in the paragraph the CDs are arranged as Amazon.com, Amazon.com,literary critic, literary critic? Or could it be any order as long as it sort of flows throught the paragraph.
ReplyDeleteDanielle: I really hope your classmates appreciate you. You are incredible, young lady!
ReplyDeleteNo - most people will find it easier to do the A.c A.c / crit crit but I can absolutely see how you could do a more effective paragraph going back and forth between the two.
That's so nice of you! Thank you Miss Arney!
ReplyDeleteThank you very much Danielle, much appreciated!
ReplyDeleteCan we use tone words that aren't on the list that Miss. Arney gave us?
ReplyDeleteLauren, I think we can use words not on the tone list as long as they describe the tone like above I was going to use the word bland even though that is not on it.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Danielle!! I agree with Miss. Arney your really helpful!
ReplyDeleteThank you Amanda and Thank you Lauren!
ReplyDeletewhat is the difference between style and diction? Miss Arney mentioned that style is formal or infromal, but i don't have any idea of diction even thought it is a choice of word.
ReplyDeletefor example, "THIS BOOK IS BORING!" is informal style but how do we prove that it is informal writing style?
Also, are we suppose to change the wrong word? For example, "why is the book called to kill a mocking birdie[sic] mean not to be rude." or just fiz the mistake?
I have so many questions to ask.
Jimin: When typing in the quotes, we are supposed so type it the way you typed with the [sic] after the mistake. we are not supposed to fix it, we're just supposed to point out that it's there.
ReplyDeleteAnd sorry, I'm a little confused about the difference between style and diction also...
Jimin, diction is more the critics word choice, making them sounds more intelligent or lacking intelligence.
ReplyDeleteFor the corrections I used [sic], I didn't correct it, but I am not definite.
I understand that diction is the word choice, but then what is style?
ReplyDeleteSarah, style is the quality of the writing, and whether it is informal or formal is the difference.
ReplyDeleteOkay, thank you Lauren!!!
ReplyDeleteFor the reviews that show that the person who wrote it didn't understand the book (like the to kill a mocking birdie review) would that be an example of content?
ReplyDeleteAlso for that review (15) should I put [sic] after every word that is not capitalized or spelled wrong or just at the end of the sentence since almost every word in the last sentence has a mistake
Annette, that would be an example of content such as the to kill a mocking birdie review because the reviewer is showing how his or her knowledge of the concrete details or content in the book is not good. He or she does not even know the name of the book or that Harper Lee is a woman. For your second question I am not really sure what to do Miss Arney would probably be better to answer that sorry
ReplyDeleteIs it okay if I use the same review for lets say both style and content but use different parts of that review in my journal?
ReplyDeleteYeah, sorry to bother again but I'm confused on the use of [sic], is it for every word mistake like: to kill a mockingbirdie [sic]
ReplyDeleteor is it like: i [sic]
or is it both?
Just so confused, any help would be appreciated!
Hello....
ReplyDeleteI am a little confused about the thesis statement....anybody?
Danielle: I think Miss Arney said we could use the same review for 2 of the elements of tone, like both style and content, as long as we explain in the separate paragraphs why it's an example of style and why it's an example of content.
ReplyDeleteAnnette and Amanda: I'm PRETTY sure that [sic] has to be used after every word that has a mistake in it, be it spelling, grammar, or capitalization.
Let me make this more clear, i do realize i must have a general statement about comparing the amazon reviews vs. the critics. I also must summarize the difference between them. However, i am very confused on how to compose this.
ReplyDeleteThe three body paragraphs have to compare/contrast the style, diction, and content between the amazon reviews and the literary criticisms. You have to use 2 quotes from the reviews and 2 quotes of the criticisms to support the difference between each of these elements.
ReplyDeleteThank you Sarah!
ReplyDeleteTheresa, in the thesis you are explaining the difference between Freedman/Barge and the amazon.com critics tone by using content style and diction to show how they differ. So you are basically saying something like "By looking at the writing of Barge and Freedman and comparing the content, style, and diction of them to the amazon.com bloggers, one can see the difference in the tone of each." I know some of the posts above talk about writing the thesis statement so they might be helpful to look at. I know they helped me a lot because I had been confused too at first.
Okay, thank-you Danielle!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteCan we use a tone word more then once? Or should we try not to, and use another word?
ReplyDeleteLauren, I think you can use a tone word more than once but if you do not want to you could probably look at thesaurus.com a word similar to it.
ReplyDeleteThank you Sarah, I was really lost for a second there, but I understand
ReplyDeleteDanielle, Thanks!
ReplyDeleteI know there has been a lot of questions on the use of [sic] but after reading all of the above posts I am still kind of confused:
ReplyDelete- Do you correct the mistakes and then put "[sic]" or do you leave the mistakes as they are and then include the "[sic]" ?
- I did an example to make sure, and in this example I corrected the mistakes and then included [sic]. Is this correct, and should Review 15's last sentence look like this?:
"If I had questions for the author I would ask him [sic] only this.[sic] Why is the book called To [sic] Kill [sic] A [sic] Mockingbird [sic] meant [sic] not to be rude? [sic]."
I know there are so many mistakes, but I feel like it's too awkward with all of those [sic]'s thrown in there. I put them directly after capitalizations (book title), punctuation ( . and ? ), and after "him" when it really should be a "her." I also assumed the word "mean" was supposed to say "meant" so i changed it to meant and then put the [sic].
Please clarify! Thanks so much!
Missy, I am not really sure, but I think we are supposed to leave the mistakes the way they are and just pit [sic] after it. I'm not definite, so I would wait for Miss. Arney to clarify.
ReplyDelete*put
ReplyDeleteAlso, for the Introduction, I am using a quote as my grabber. I am confused with what my "Explain" should be.
ReplyDeleteThank you so much Lauren!
ReplyDeleteDo we have to identify the tone in each concrete detail we use?
ReplyDeleteMissy, the explain should explain or elaborate on your grabber. So if in the grabber is about opinion or tone, in the explain you might talk about why there is opinion, what opinion is, or how it is formed.
ReplyDeleteLauren, yes I think you have to explain the tone of each concrete detail when you ICE the quote. In the ICE is where you include the tone.
Ok, Thanks Danielle!!
ReplyDeleteThank you so much Danielle!!
ReplyDeleteIn the reviews, would not underlining the title of the book be considered a grammatical mistake that we should use [sic] for?
ReplyDeleteEmily, I think so.
ReplyDeletePlease know, guys, that you will never deal with so many SICS ever again! I'm not going to be angry if you miss one and, Marissa, if you want to put it after the entire improperly indicated title rather than each word, it's fine.
ReplyDeleteAnd, remember that ; marks may be your friend when writing a thesis statement. You may want to divide it into two parts.
How is the journal going?
I realize this one is causes a few brainmelts; there will be no journal next weekend as a reward, ok?
Thank you so much Miss Arney for not giving us a journal next week!:) This one has been interesting. I feel the hardest part is if you write and then stop writing,the paragraphs are so long you forget what you have said or forget where your are and have trouble getting back into writing it. It's hard to stay focused on it for a long time.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Danielle, and thank-you so much for not giving us a journal. So I know this has been a popular question, can we just use [sic] at the end of the entire sentence. I think it will be very awkard to read with all of the [sics]'s there.
ReplyDeleteAlso, i have a similar question to Missy. In my grabber i am also using a quote, i do not quite understand the explaining part. What should we include in this sentence?
ReplyDeleteIn addition, this is directed to Danielle:
ReplyDeletewhen you responded to my question about the thesis at 3:22 pm. at the end of your sample thesis("By looking at the writing of Barge and Freedman and comparing the content, style, and diction of them to the amazon.com bloggers, one can see the difference in the tone of each.") Why would you say that one can notice the difference in tone, if each paragraph is about style, content and diction?
Theresa I see what you are saying about how tone seems to fit strangely. I thought that since content, style, and diction made up tone it would be good to put into the thesis but instead of tone maybe if it said "difference in the writing style of each" that would sound better. If it sounds strange you don't have to use tone I was just giving an example sorry if it was confusing. For your question about putting sic I know Miss Arney said you could use it at the end of the title but I am not sure about the whole sentence. And for your other question about the explain maybe you should explain how the quote relates to what you are going to write or elaborate on what the quote means to you and why you used it.
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ReplyDeleteSo, let me get this straight, If there are a few mistakes grammaticaly in a sentence, just put sic at the end of the whole sentence?
ReplyDelete(sorry for all these questions)
ReplyDeleteUhmmm....for the topic sentences, how should we write them, for example,(content-knowledge of book) "In the leading criticisms from the reviews and essays, the content of the novel differ in many ways." Is this right?
Theresa, I think that is right, but I think you have to include the ways they differ.
ReplyDeleteCan you use just Freedman as an example of content and Barge just as an example for style?
ReplyDeleteEmily,
ReplyDeleteYes, you are allowed to interchange the critics for each paragraph. On the assignment sheet it says that "paragrpah 2 may have 2 quotes from the reviews and then 2 quotes from Barge OR Freedman, OR one from each".
Ok thanks Missy!
ReplyDeleteLauren, the ways they differ are included in the paragraph itself, that is what you are trying to proove from your topic sentence. (i am pretty sure)
ReplyDeleteI decided to make my grabber a quote, but the one I found is by a man who is somewhat unknown. Is that okay?
ReplyDeleteI know that-
Mark Twain once said... sounds better than
Ralph Waldo Emerson once said...
Ally, I think it is okay to use a quote by a not so famous man but if you think saying Ralph Waldo Emerson sounds bad maybe you would just want to say Ralph Emerson so its not as long to say or read.
ReplyDeleteFor me the hardest part about the journal is commenting on it. I find myself repeating the same idea but just using different words throughout the journal.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Kevin. I feel like I am also repeating myself while explaining the different examples that I used.
ReplyDeleteI'm sort of confused about the 3 body paragraphs - can we choose the topics of each paragraph? For instance, I'm using language, style, and diction as the 3 topics...is that correct?
ReplyDeleteShawna, I know the journal outline said content, style, and diction but maybe Miss Arney would let you use language instead.
ReplyDeleteAlso, if we hand the journal in tomorrow is it five extra points or it does not matter when we hand it in?
I have another question also. For the town does it matter where in the ICE we put it or it doesn't matter as long is it somewhere in it? Sometimes I put it in the introduce but sometimes I put it in the explain.
ReplyDelete*tone
ReplyDeleteOkay, thank you Danielle!
ReplyDeleteI have another question - when citing Freedman or Barge, should we include the page number?
ReplyDeleteFor example, would it be cited like
(Freedman 189)
or just
(Freedman) ?
To answer your earlier question Danielle - I believe that you would recieve the 5 extra points for handing it in early tomorrow.
ReplyDeleteShawna,
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure if this is how we are supposed to do it but I included the page number when citing the quote.
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ReplyDeleteThanks Shawna! For your question I know for the midterm we just cited the name but I am not sure if Miss Arney wants us to do it differently for the journal.
ReplyDeleteOkay, thank you Jason and Danielle!
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ReplyDeleteWhen it says we are allowed to be slightly less formal in this journal does that mean we are allowed to be a little more colloquial?
ReplyDeleteTaylor,
ReplyDeleteYes, I believe that you are correct. You can be a little more colloquial but you can't use "you" or "I". I hope this helps!
Thanks!
ReplyDeleteFor the topic sentence of the body paragraphs, is it okay to use a form of a definition? I don't mean a dictionary definition, but like something that explains the style, for instance?
ReplyDeleteShawna, I think that is okay as long as you connect it to barge,freedman,and the amazon.com bloggers somehow and explain sort of how it connects.
ReplyDeleteOkay, thank you again Danielle!!
ReplyDeletein one of the reviews, it says that the book "sucked." If I were to use this in my essay would I place a [sic] after it because it is using the wrong tense or would I leave it how it is?
ReplyDeleteSorry, guys - but you know that Wednesday is my late night, right?
ReplyDeleteFrom the bottom, up:
Jason: no, don't "sic" it; it's the diction chosen by the author.
Shawna: avoid definitions (don't EXPLAIN what style or content is; your TS makes a statement comparing or contrasting the two genres)
Taylor: colloquial is ok; 1st and 2nd person isn't (unless it is in a quote)
Jason: you don't need page numbers for this; they really don't exist on websites and the Freedman / Barge can be just the way they were with the midterm
ALL: you don't need to identify the tone for EVERY SINGLE QUOTE but I do expect some use of tone words in your essay to analyze some of them.
Theresa: your topic sentence should not be soooo general; it needs to make a claim that you are proving in the paragraph. TO say they are different is too vague.
I feel like I am repeating myself over and over for the comments on reviews just stating it differently. I don't know anymore if I'm doing my journal correctly...
ReplyDeleteJimin: if you pick different reviews, you shouldn't be repeating. And just because two people insult the book doesn't mean they do it the same way or with the same words, style, etc.
ReplyDeleteEVERYONE: the Percy & the Olympians extra credit is now posted on our website.
But almost all of the reviewer don't provide concrete detail from the book unlike literary critics.
ReplyDeleteHow are we suppose to contrast the reviewers and literary critics in style? Are we just stating that they are infromal or formal and explain?
OK, so for your CMs you might suggest what the reviewers COULD have used IF they bothered to put in a concrete detail (for content).
ReplyDeleteAs for style, exactly. Show HOW it is formal or informal; explain how effective it is and how it appeals (or doesn't appeal) to the reader.
If i am citing the name of the article by the critics or the amazon posts should i underline the source and the name of the arictle?
ReplyDelete-Shannon
also when refering to the people who wrote the comments on Amazon what should i call them?? The reviewers or ... everything sound akward
ReplyDelete-Shannon
Shannon,
ReplyDeleteTo answer your second question, I called them the reviewers. I agree that it does sound pretty awkward though, but I couldn't think of any other things to call them.
yea i settled on that or i said the authors of the reviews...
ReplyDeleteThanks Shawna!
I feel very redundant when I am talking about the Amazon.com reviews, especially when they are very similar...is there any way that I can condense two of the concrete details and talk about them as one?
ReplyDeleteSorry Miss Arney, thank-you that really helps. However what is thing with sic again, im reading over my journal now. Can i just put [sic] at the end of a sentence in a quote if it has one or more grammatical mistakes? And also, in the CS of each paragraph, should it be general?
ReplyDeleteAre we allowed to use "you" if it's in a quote?
ReplyDeleteTheresa, i don't think you can just put it at the end. Ithink you must put it after each mistake but i'm not totally sure.
ReplyDeleteJulie,you are allowed to have a quote with "you" in it, as long as your not putting "you" into your writing!
ReplyDeletehope this helps!
Does anyone know if we are allowed to use a quote more than once? For example can I use it in my first body paragraph and then again for a different reason in my third?
ReplyDeleteJames: You may use the same review, but NOT the same words / quote from the review.
ReplyDeleteTheresa: For not underlining the title -- or misspelling several words -- you can do a [sic] at the end of the phrase; don't do that for other errors. It should be [sic] after each.
The closing sentence makes a final observation about the topic and transitions to the next paragraph.
Shannon: reviewers, bloggers, or just readers would work.
ReplyDeleteThanks James!!
ReplyDeleteOkay thank-you Miss Arney. Also, when you mentioned that my topic sentence was too vague... i feel like if i make it more specific it will be to specific. Should i mention content in the TS, because that is what the paragraph is about
ReplyDeleteAlso, in my CS leading into my paragraph for style i say, It is obvious that many writers fail to show some content of the topic, while many writers' reviews are far more compelling.?
ReplyDeleteRight now, don't worry about getting too specific in your thesis. It is far worse to be vague.
ReplyDeleteAnd your CS is awkward... you sound like you are transitioning to a contrary paragraph.
Miss Arney, when reviewer one says Shakespeare, the consummate craftsmen of characterization should I put [sic] next to craftsmen because it does not agree?
ReplyDeleteoooohhhhh, Erika, you have made my day. I'm very proud of you for picking up on that. Yes, do it!
ReplyDeleteMiss Arney,
ReplyDeleteFor the CDs, were we allowed to use three CMs? Or just include 2? because for one CD i had a lot to comment on!
Thank you Miss Arney
ReplyDeletealso does Freedman realize that he spelt Maycomb wrong?
James: go crazy ;-)
ReplyDeleteErika: I'm sure he does NOW, but at the time probably not, since the editors "sic"ed him.
if I introduce a CD by using the critics name do i have to site the page number after it as well in quotations.
ReplyDeletefor example. While disputing an argument brought up by Freedman, Barge says "........" do i need the (Barge, 192) or can i leave it as is?
No ..just leave it as you have it. If you introduce the author in your control (and you don't need the page number), just let it be!
ReplyDeleteMiss Arney i was just wondering if you recieved my journal?
ReplyDeleteYes; thank you, Theresa
ReplyDeleteThread closed.
ReplyDelete