Tuesday, December 8, 2009

Oedipus Essay - Student Study / Collaboration Group

Use this thread to discourse with one another as you plan out your AP essay. Share ideas; ask questions; try out thesis statements; get help and offer some in return.Use this thread to discourse with one another as you plan out your AP essay. Share ideas; ask questions; try out thesis statements; get help and offer some in return.

145 comments:

  1. Miss. Arney the links are very helpful for the essay!

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  2. Thank you, Lauren! I hope you continue to find them useful :-)

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  3. Should all of our CDs (concrete details) be quotes or can they be a quick summary about a paticular event?

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  4. A concrete detail does not need to be a direct quote, but it should be something you can point to in the book and say "here it is".

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  5. Are quotes from the book considered CD or CM?

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  6. Jimin quotes are considered concrete details.

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  7. Does anyone know if the title Oedipus Rex is supposed to be in quotes or underlined?

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  8. Julie I think your supposed to underline the title but I would ask Miss Arney just in case.

    I was wondering if someone could explain the perpetuation to me. Is it what happened because Oedipus believed his illusions?

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  9. Also, what is pagination? I can't find it in my MLA book.

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  10. Thanks Kevin. I think you are right and perpetuation happens because he believes his illusions but not totally sure.

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  11. Kevin, the perpetuation of the illusion is when oedipus continued to believe something that was not true. The results of it are all the bad things that happen to him or others during the time Oedipus continues to believe the illusion.

    Julie, i think pagination is like a bibliography, or how you should properly cite quotes, but im not sure.

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  12. Miss Arney, what time and day should we email you the essay if we want to get the extra 5 points on the essay?

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  13. i am confused about the consequences of realizing the truth. oedipus suffers the same consequences for each illusion- blinding himself, losing everything, banishment... how should i write a consequence that goes with each concrete detail if the consequences are the same?

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  14. Annette, I think you can use the same ones a couple times, but maybe find different examples that are even more specific to the illusion.

    Emily, I think the date was on Saturday before 12, but I am not definite.

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  15. Emily, Lauren is correct Miss Arney said that we would have to email it to her Saturday before midnight.

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  16. Emily, the essay is due 12 o'clock Saturday night.

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  17. Miss Arney,
    Can we use the first two sentences on the assignment paper as our grabber?

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  18. Do we have to mention and define illusion, perpetuation, and catastrophy in our introductory paragraph?

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  19. Stacey, I don't think we have to, I beleive Miss. Arney said it had to start with an intro- grabber- explain link to literature, annotate then thesis. Maybe if you wanted to add more meaning to you introduction you can add that, but I am pretty sure it's not required.

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  20. Also, for the third paragraph of the reality, does it also follow with the second paragraph setup (three concrete details, two commentary)?

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  21. Shawna, I don't think it matters how much sentences it is just like thesis statement(s).

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  22. Lauren, you use 11-sentences paragraph format for 2,3, and 4th paragraph according to Miss Arney.

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  23. hey i have a question regarding the grabber in the essay. I wote a grabber

    Throughout many plays, as well as one’s life, people and characters believe false opinions or illusions about themselves and their worlds.

    I was wondering if it needs to be more general and do you think it is too similar to the first sentence in the prompt? any suggestions?

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  24. Mine is pretty similar to that Tara, I think it sounds good!

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  25. I am having trouble coming up with a thesis statement, should it have themes of the play in it?

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  26. Thank you Jimin!...I meant to ask something else though so I reworded my question:
    Can we use the first two sentences on the prompt sheet that Miss Arney gave us as our grabber?

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  27. I'm not sure of the answer to that Shawna, sorry!
    Also, (sorry I have been asking so many questions), for the genre would it be tragedy or drama?

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  28. It's fine Lauren! To answer your question, I believe that the genre is tragedy.

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  29. Shawna and Lauren,
    I believe Ms. Arney said the genre was drama

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  31. Can a thesis be something like: Don't attempt to outwit the gods and escape your fate or else a horrible turn of events will occur?

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  32. Sorry I haven't been able to get here for a few days. I'll try to get to everyone's questions (and there is a new link off of the main Eng9H page under newsflash!)
    Pagination: numbering the pages. Your last name and the page number of the essay must be typed in the upper right hand corner of each page (should be done with a header)
    The MLA heading ONLY goes on the first page; otherwise it would be insane!

    Genre: tragedy (or drama) would work

    If you have nothing else, you may paraphrase the prompt for a grabber for this essay.


    Lauren: your thesis can be split into two sentences or divided with a semi-colon, but it should have the theme that is illustrated by the perpetutation and destruction of the illusions.


    Do not give definitions in your introduction.

    MIdnight tonight is the deadline for the extra credit.

    Guys: I am home this weekend (Can't go anywhere) and I'm actually capable of speaking more than 3 sentences without going into a coughing spasm; CALL ME if you need immediate help, ok? I am SO sorry that I haven't been there for you this week. You deserve so much more. We're still trying to figure out what is causing the problem, so I really appreciate your patience.

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  33. Hope you feel better soon Miss Arney!

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  34. Miss. Arney, if my thesis is about the peripeteia and illusions, how can I tie that together with my first paragraph, if the peripeteia hasn't been mentioned yet?

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  35. For the introduction GELATIN when annotating, giving a summmary of the play, can we do that in more than one sentence?

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  36. Teresa I think that the summaries are supposed to be one sentence. I think It also has to more general than specific. Miss Arney said it's like a movie announcer voice.

    Quick Question : Are the perpetuation the commentary to the illusions?

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  37. Kevin, yes that is what is writtenin my notes.

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  38. Did we only have to use direct quotes in paragraphs 2,3, and 4 or should we have included a quote in paragraphs one and five? I was checking with the rubric and it said to use a direct quote in each paragraph I think.

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  39. Danielle, i'm think that you need to have at least one qoute in each of the body paragraphs(2 3 and 4)

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  40. I don't think you have to provide a quote in paragraph one, and I thought there were only four paragraphs.

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  41. Thank you Lauren and Annette!

    Lauren, there is the introduction paragraph, the first paragraph on the illusion, the second paragraph on the difference from the reality, the third paragraph on how the perpetuation causes a theme, and the conclusion. So altogether there are five. Maybe you forgot the conclusion? There we have to link this to reality and sum it up in a way.

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  42. So, basically for the second paragraph the commentary is actually kind of facts of what Oedipus does to keep his illusion going?

    Thanks Danielle, somehow I did forget the conclusion!

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  43. The CD would be reality and the CM would be the consequence of learning the reality I think for the second paragraph. Then the third kind of "bounces off" of that by saying how transitionaing to the reality creates a theme.

    Do we have to hand in our planning or fill out the sheet that Miss Arney gave to use about the assignment with the essay?

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  44. Lauren, I meant the third paragraph bounces off the second in a way just in case you didn't get what I was saying.

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  45. Lauren,
    By second paragraph do you mean including the introduction? Because Theres the introduction and then in the second paragraph the CD's are the illusions and the CM's are the result of the perpetuation of the illusions(from the chart) and then the third paragraph the CD's are the reality and the CM's are the consequences of discovering the truth.

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  46. Oh sorry Danielle, I didn't see that you answered her question already

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  47. is the title underlined or quoted? Also, does the TAG part have to be in the thesis or just the introduction?

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  48. Its okay Teresa its better cause I could be saying the wrong thing and not know it! It also helps for more information!Don't be sorry!

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  49. The title has to be quoted and I'm not sure whether or not the TAG has to be in the thesis.

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  50. Julie, the TAG (title, author, and genre) can be throughout the first paragraph they don't all have to be in the thesis.

    also for the third paragraph commentaries is it only supposed to be the consequences of relizing the truth? In other words should Oedipus's realization of the truth be explained in the second or third paragraphs' commentaries?

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  51. Is Oedipus quoted because it is a play?

    Annette, the commentaries for the paragraph about reality are the consequences of the truth. So it would be explained in the third paragraph of the overall essay. I wasn't sure if you mean the second and third paragraph excludingthe introduction. The fourth paragraph is about how it relates to the theme. Sorry if this is confusing!

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  52. I quoted it, and I believe Miss. Arney told us to do that.

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  53. Thank you Lauren I know it was answered before but I was just confused why thanks!

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  54. oh haha, sorry I didn't see that!

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  55. I am having trouble with an Annotation for the Introductory paragraph. I understand that it is the "movie announcer voice" and should be like "in a world...." but I do not understand any further than that.
    Please help!

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  56. Missy, you are kind of summarizing the main idea of the book in one sentence. I said something like oedipus is engulfed in illusions through his life that he eventually must find the truth.

    Do you have to cite a page you find something on even if it is not a quote if it is a concrete detail?

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  57. I have a few questions about the theme. Does it have be mentioned in the thesis? If so should it be one word like blindness, or a phrase? Are all three concrete details in the fouth paragraph supposed to be about the same theme? For the commentaries in that paragraph should they be about how each illusion demonstrates the theme? Sorry about all the questions!

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  58. Annette, I am confused on the exact same things as you.

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  59. I am having a really hard time coming up with modern day examples. The only one I have right now is Tiger Woods like Ms. Arney mentioned in class. Any suggestions?

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  61. I thought the title s italicized when writting an essay on the computer.

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  62. Annette, for your first question I think you should put some reference of the theme in the thesis. For your second question what I did was say the illusions and reality helped Sophocles demonstrate blank which would be the theme or something like that. For your third question I think the concrete details should be how illusion to the reality or the perpetuation realate to the theme. And for your fourht question I think that the commentary should describe what happened. For example if the theme was hubris your concrete detail may be the perpetuation of him not believing the prophecy showed hubris. Then say he felt like he could defy the gods and explain it maybe. Sorry if my answer is confusing I am a little confused to but I hope it helps!

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  63. Miss. Arney also said Bernie Madoff, and how he was trusted by so many people

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  64. im pretty sure you underline the title

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  65. Teresa, Miss Arney also mentioned Bernie Madoff. Maybe think of people who thought they could get away with things but were exposed. There was also even though this is older President Nixon or Elliot Spitzer.

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  66. If I don't want the whole quote, I can put just part of it, right?

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  67. I am confused about what we need to write in the fourth paragraph about the catharsis

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  68. Also, does the quote from the play have to be a concrete detail or can it be a commentary?

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  70. Julie, I also don't understand the catharsis. Are we supposed to write about the character Oedipus accepting his fate or the audience being re-affirmed in their beliefs?

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  71. Sorry for the delay, guys.
    Italicize the title.

    Annette: it's both. The 4th paragraph is about the theme: the lesson Sophocles is trying to teach. So that lesson is reaffirming the moral beliefs of the ancient Greeks as it is being "learned" by Oedipus.
    Julie: does that help?

    It's difficult to use a direct quote as a commentary, but not impossible....

    Yes, you can use part of a sentence from the play and omit what you don't want to use...refer to MLA Handbook for help if you need it about ellipses in quotes

    A parenthetical citation is the quote, and author page number thing

    I think it was very nice of Tiger Woods to have this meltdown in time for our essay, don't you?

    Did I miss any questions? Please let me know; I'm still home.

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  72. Thank you, that helps so much. Feel better Miss Arney!!

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  73. can we use yertle the turtle for our modern day example? and for the theme paragraph (4) are we only supposed to use 1 theme or 3, one for each concrete detail (because that's what i did)

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  74. Tara, if I understand your question correctly, I think your supposed to use one theme but relate it to all of the concrete details.

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  75. I did like you did tara, and used 3 different themes but i don't know if that is correct

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  76. Julie, I could be wrong too, or maybe it is possible that either way is correct because I am not sure if Miss. Arney specified.

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  77. Is is bad to have the word "you" if it is from a direct quote?

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  78. I wouldn't think so, if it is in a quote then it would make sense to use it.

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  79. Do you have to use a quote for commentary or only concrete detail?

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  80. I used a lot of quotes for commentary and I think above Miss. Arney said your allowed to.

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  81. When we cite the quote should we use the page number or paragraph number because the requirements say page number but the checklist says paragraph number?

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  82. ONE THEME ONE THEME ONE THEME!!!! 3 details that clearly show that Sophocles proved that theme. 3 themes is insane - I'm not that mean and your thesis would be OUT OF CONTROL. Of course, you can blend: HUBRIS leads to believing you can AVOID YOUR FATE.

    Sorry, Danielle: YOU are right. Cite by PAGE NUMBER, not paragraph.

    Try to find another modern link other than Yertle (but if you are fond of Dr. Seuss, you can pick another of his stories)

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  83. For the fourth paragraph, what are supposed to do the commentary and concrete details on?

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  84. Lauren,
    I think that we have to come up with them for the fourth paragraph, for some of my concrete details I used actions of Oedipus that proved the theme and then I explained how they proved it in my commentaries but I don't think there was anything specific Ms. Arney told us to use.

    And also thanks Danielle for answering my question about modern day examples before, it really helped.

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  85. Thank you Miss Arney! And no problem Teresa!

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  86. Should the essay be double spaced?

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  87. Haha ok thanks Lauren, Thats what I thought

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  88. haha, I don't know why I added an exclamation mark but... Yes.
    Also is there any specific structure for the conclusion?

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  89. lauren, I don't believe there is as long as you connect Oedipus with whoever your modern day tragic hero is but I could be wrong. I think you just need a topic sentence and concluding sentence.

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  90. I can't believe we are still blogging now even though it is not that late. This sounds weird but I think I will be dreaming about Oedipus and this essay tonight since it is all I have been focused on!

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  91. Haha, I am just glad I finished on time to hand it in early! Thanks so much for the help Miss. Arney. This blog really helped me on the essay!

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  92. Miss Arney- For paragraph two, do we have to include all five of the illusions we wrote down?

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  93. is the theme of light and darnkness/ sight and blindness acceptable for the fourth paragraph? because i saw what miss arney said and was wondering if that theme applies because it does not really teach the audience a lesson but is reoccuring throughout the book. sorry i am really confused on the fourth paragraph and need help!

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  94. Kelly,
    I am pretty sure you only have use three one for each of the three concrete details.

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  95. I have several questions, and it is very difficult to keep up on all the questions on this blog! So I think some have been answered already...

    1. For paragraph 2, the commentary (Perpetuations) are the "Result of Perpetuation of Illusion" from our charts in class, right?

    2. For paragraph 3, the concrete details are the places in our charts titled "Reality", right?

    3. For paragraph 4, the concrete detail is the theme and the commentaries are the catharsis?

    Sorry because these have probably already been answered, but it is confusing to understand everyone's posts.

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  96. Marissa:
    1. For paragraph 2- yes and Miss Arney wrote on the board that Perpetuation is the commentary for the paragraph.
    And for everything else, I believe that you are correct, but for P4, i have written down that the theme=catharsis & modern day hero's tragic downfall for the conclusion paragraph. Hope this helps!!
    -James

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  97. does anyone know if it is alright to use words like "they" in the conlusion paragraph. also if i pust words like "me" and "i" in quotes is it acceptable

    for example:
    Both Tiger and Oedipus believed that they were above all the rest and were in a state of mind of “I’m to good for that” and “Oh, it will never happen to me.”

    any thoughts?

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  98. Missy,
    For pararaph 4 what i did was pick one major theme and each concrete detail was an example of thet theme in the book. and the commentaries are why it shows that message and what Sophocles is saying. Also i mentioned the catharsis in my topic senttence and i said that the catharsis of oedipus brought about the central theme of the novel. hope this helps!

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  99. For the into paragraph- after the grabber i wrote down explain, are we supposed to explain our grabber?!?! I'm a little confused about what we are supposed to "explain" Please help!!

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  100. James:
    It means to Explain or Elaborate on the grabber - sometimes the grabber is a famous quote or something a little more philosophical. You just need to interpret it or massage it a little more so that it begins to get closer to the topic of your essay. Does that make sense?

    Tara: if you put the first or second person pronouns in a quote like you show here, that is fine!
    As for theme, what lesson does Sophocles teach? light/darkness is a motif. Look through the blog and your notes; the themes should be clear.
    Ask yourself what lesson does Oedipus learn about life that the ancient Greek audience was hoping he'd finally learn? It should reflect a value or moral of the time.

    Danielle: LOL!

    Kelly: 3 concrete details - 3 of the best illusions you found

    Lauren: the exclamation point prevented T from losing points; that's what it was for. You were being a good friend!!!!!!!!!!! (and the emphasis on that is what THESE exclamation points are for :-)

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  101. also, i connected the motif of light/darkness to hubris. is that acceptable or do i have to redo that paragraph?

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  102. Motifs ususally help illustrate or teach a theme without being the theme. What is the topic sentence (the theme) you came up with?

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  103. I used light/ darkness as my theme but said that it brought out Oedipus's trait of hubris

    ex
    The theme of sight to blindness also gives the reader insight into Oedipus’s personality, which displays hubris. Oedipus shows hubris because of the way he is in the dark, and refuses to see, a truth that is so obviously laid out in front of him by the gods, which he cannot avoid. Blindness and hubris are connected in the story because the way that Oedipus is not blind in sight, he is “selectively blind” to what he wants the truth to be, which demonstrates his arrogance and disbelief in the power of the gods, also known as hubris.

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  104. Tara: Blindness and hubris are connected in the story because the way that Oedipus is not blind in sight, he is “selectively blind” to what he wants the truth to be, which demonstrates his arrogance and disbelief in the power of the gods, also known as hubris.
    a little unweildy. Can you tighten this to say exactly what you mean?

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  105. I am not sure where to include the genre in the first paragpraph.
    When I link the grabber to literature, should I say something like: "...in Oedipus Rex, a tragedy by Sophocles"?

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  106. When citing quotes, if a quote occurs on more than one line do we cite line breaks with a / ?
    For example one of my quotes says
    Myself entwined with those I never could.
    And I the killer of those I never would.

    that would be cited as:
    " Myself entwined with those I never could./ And I the killer of those I never would" (Sophocles 67).
    Is that correct?

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  107. Miss Arney:
    for our essays- should we write the heading you want us to put on everything? or should we just use the MLA format and put our names on every page in the heading?

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  108. Is hubris capitalized when it is in the middle of a sentence or not?

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  109. Miss Arney I have Microsoft Word Viewer so this will not let me make a header.

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  111. Jason - about your genre question, I said "In Oedipus Rex, a Greek tragedy written by Sophocles..." so that it states all of TAG in the same sentence. About your hubris question; no, it is not capitalized.

    Tracey - I can't help you with that sorry!

    James - On the home page of Miss Arney's web site, it has everything you need to know. On every page in the upper right hand corner it should have your last name followed by the page number. On only the first page it should have Name, Miss Arney, English 9H Period 4 Team, 14 December 2009

    Hope this helps!

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  112. Tracy: Yes, you should use a poetic slash.
    Marissa: Thank you for responding to Jason before I could!
    Erika: Neatly print the header in black ink. I realize it would be annoying to manually try typing it on each page. Just put a post it (or a pencil-written note) on the very bottom of the essay to remind me.

    Guys: I just heard about the AP exam on Friday; novel notes will be due on the 21st.

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  113. Can a theme be that a person is not able to avoid fate?

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  114. Thank you Miss Arney for putting this blog up! It has been really helpful and usually i get writer's block when I write an essay so it kept my brain moving. It also helped to hear other ideas to see what is wrong with mine. And thank you for changing the date novel notes are due! Oh and Miss Arney did you happen to get my emails because my aol was spazzing last night so I was having a heart attack that I would not be able to get it to you before 11:59 because I had to go on yahoo at 11:57 last night?

    Teresa, I think a theme can be not being able to avoid one's fate which also relates to not showing hubris by trying to change one's fate. That is like the theme I did.

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  115. Thanks Danielle. Also for the direct quotes is there not supposed to be a period inside the quote?
    ex I used the quote “…Polybus and you were worlds apart” (Sophocles 55)and then I contined my sentence or would there be a period after apart

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  116. I dont understand link to liturature in the first paragraph?

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  117. also for the first paragraph i just kinda explained the story to get the idea of what was happening is that okay?

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  118. Shannon, I am not sure what you mean but I would just be sure to include GELATIN also link to literature confused me too but I think it just means relate your grabber to the play

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  119. I also wasnt entirely sure about what that meant but I said something like, "that is true with the protagonist in Oedipus Rex, a Greek tragedy by Sophocles." (relating to what is said in my grabber)

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  120. should our grabber be realted to the story or like and modern day comparison?

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  121. For the fourth paragraph, i have one theme and two lessons for the concrete details but im not sure if thats okay?
    - Nikita

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  122. Teresa, I would not include a perios within the quote. It goes after you cite it or finish the sentence.

    Shannon, the link to literature would be after you explain your topic sentence you would say something like This exists or applies to the drama/tragedy Oedipus Rex by Sophocles where...
    Also in the grabber you should not mention the story at all just state the theme and how it realates to illusions and reality.

    Nikita, I know you need to have three concrete details which relate to your theme so maybe add another lesson or talk about how your illusions or reality above connect to the theme.

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  123. Sorry Teresa I meant not a period within the quote not perios.

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  124. Shannon, I think the grabber should be a general statement about illusions.
    Nikita, I think a theme and a lesson are the same thing, and you should have only one.

    When we are citing quotes, should we use a slash whenever there is a new line even if the first word of the new line is not capitalized?

    Also, do we have to turn in the graphic organizer? I am asking because I planned out my essay on another sheet of paper in a different way from what is on the chart.

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  125. Jeremy, I think you should use a slash even though it is not capitalized but I am not positive sorry. I also have the same question about turning in notes because I did not make a chart I took notes on paper and put my ideas together in my head from what was written down.

    Miss Arney, is it okay if we handed the essay in yesterday and did not use the slashes in quotes because I did not realize we were supposed to?

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  126. thank you all veyr much
    also does prophecy have to be capitalized?
    -SHannon

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  127. Nikita: the theme should be in your topic sentence; that's what you are proving. 3 concrete details need to prove it.

    Danielle: I do have your essay. And, yes, it's ok.

    Everyone who submitted it to me by midnight last night: please print it out and submit it to Ms. Iorio tomorrow with +5 on it.

    Shannon: a grabber is a generalized statement - not about a particular person but about a concept or idea. Like pride or believing illusions
    And the link to lit is a transitional statement to get you from that overreaching concept to the story (like, This can be seen in a famous Greek tragedy...")

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  128. okay thanky you Miss Arney
    -Shannon

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